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	<title>Comments for GABlog</title>
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	<description>Generative Anthropology in the Public Sphere</description>
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		<title>Comment on Health Care by adam</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/05/health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-18134</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 01:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that &quot;value,&quot; by definition, is always open for negotiation, and so non-negotiable value is a contradiction in terms.  And I don&#039;t think we need to &quot;appeal&quot; to anything beyond the individual in order to sacralize it--the sacred is what you appeal to, and the individual is what we appeal to.  

I think the problem is resolved if what we consider sacred in the individual is not his/her life and well being, but his/her freedom.  Any individual always transcends whatever &quot;value&quot; we could place on him or her, any knowledge we could have, anything we could predict they might do, etc.  And so we don&#039;t impose our sense of possibilities on any individual.  That doesn&#039;t mean we track them every day of their life to make sure nothing bad happens to them; quite to the contrary. 

I don&#039;t think I disagree with you about the historical nature and intelligibility of the sacrality of the individual, and of all sacrality.  Insofar as we do our rationalizing within language, though, we are presupposing the minimal sacrality constitutive of language--giving reasons is a gesture towards the other which constitutes the joint attention intrinsic to all understanding, and it is a gesture which makes sense, as the reasons we give only make sense, within particular traditions and disciplinary spaces, themselves founded upon some form of joint attention.  GA illuminates this circularity but doesn&#039;t get out of it--maybe part of the accomplishment of GA is that we can stop trying to get out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that &#8220;value,&#8221; by definition, is always open for negotiation, and so non-negotiable value is a contradiction in terms.  And I don&#8217;t think we need to &#8220;appeal&#8221; to anything beyond the individual in order to sacralize it&#8211;the sacred is what you appeal to, and the individual is what we appeal to.  </p>
<p>I think the problem is resolved if what we consider sacred in the individual is not his/her life and well being, but his/her freedom.  Any individual always transcends whatever &#8220;value&#8221; we could place on him or her, any knowledge we could have, anything we could predict they might do, etc.  And so we don&#8217;t impose our sense of possibilities on any individual.  That doesn&#8217;t mean we track them every day of their life to make sure nothing bad happens to them; quite to the contrary. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I disagree with you about the historical nature and intelligibility of the sacrality of the individual, and of all sacrality.  Insofar as we do our rationalizing within language, though, we are presupposing the minimal sacrality constitutive of language&#8211;giving reasons is a gesture towards the other which constitutes the joint attention intrinsic to all understanding, and it is a gesture which makes sense, as the reasons we give only make sense, within particular traditions and disciplinary spaces, themselves founded upon some form of joint attention.  GA illuminates this circularity but doesn&#8217;t get out of it&#8211;maybe part of the accomplishment of GA is that we can stop trying to get out of it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Health Care by Q</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/05/health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-18133</link>
		<dc:creator>Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/?p=379#comment-18133</guid>
		<description>In regard to rationalization. First of all, value and sacrality are not exactly the same. We can admit the value of every human being without calling in the sacred. Calling the individual &quot;sacred,&quot; as I did, is really just a way of indicating that his or her value is not open to negotiation. Asserting the incontrovertible value of the individual need not involve any appeal to God, the supernatural, or a metaphysical order. And in a public policy debate, it&#039;s probably not helpful to appeal to the sacred as such. 

In political practice, the value of an individual is always relative. We admit that a certain number of individuals killed each year as the price allowing car traffic; not to mention war and other examples. Some Girardians have focused on such social calculations to argue that our social order is reprehensibly  &quot;sacrificial.&quot; But the point is protect rights, not eliminate suffering or inequality. &quot;Rights&quot; articulate a minimal valuation of the individual. Each individual cannot be given &quot;infinite value&quot; (as a philosophy professor once put it) because values inevitably conflict; what&#039;s &quot;valuable&quot; for me (having the best available health care for example), might be costly for you, such that you can&#039;t afford the best available health care.

Second, GA, as I understand it, provides a hypothetical narrative of how the individual becomes &quot;sacred.&quot; The sacrality of the individual is not a given, not universal, not atemporal, but a contingent event of history. Humans exist, but they don&#039;t have to exist, and before our origin, humans didn&#039;t exist. Insofar as we motivate the individual&#039;s sacrality through a narrative hypothesis, we can say that the sacrality or rather value of the individual is rationalized. In general, if one gives reasons (without appealing to God or the equivalent) why one regards the individual as sacred or valuable, then we&#039;ve rationalized individual value/sacrality. To that extent, GA has better rationalized the value of the individual better than any other thought-system of which I&#039;m aware. Human rights advocates simply assert a priori that rights are universal. GA tells us why. That&#039;s a great advance to my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In regard to rationalization. First of all, value and sacrality are not exactly the same. We can admit the value of every human being without calling in the sacred. Calling the individual &#8220;sacred,&#8221; as I did, is really just a way of indicating that his or her value is not open to negotiation. Asserting the incontrovertible value of the individual need not involve any appeal to God, the supernatural, or a metaphysical order. And in a public policy debate, it&#8217;s probably not helpful to appeal to the sacred as such. </p>
<p>In political practice, the value of an individual is always relative. We admit that a certain number of individuals killed each year as the price allowing car traffic; not to mention war and other examples. Some Girardians have focused on such social calculations to argue that our social order is reprehensibly  &#8220;sacrificial.&#8221; But the point is protect rights, not eliminate suffering or inequality. &#8220;Rights&#8221; articulate a minimal valuation of the individual. Each individual cannot be given &#8220;infinite value&#8221; (as a philosophy professor once put it) because values inevitably conflict; what&#8217;s &#8220;valuable&#8221; for me (having the best available health care for example), might be costly for you, such that you can&#8217;t afford the best available health care.</p>
<p>Second, GA, as I understand it, provides a hypothetical narrative of how the individual becomes &#8220;sacred.&#8221; The sacrality of the individual is not a given, not universal, not atemporal, but a contingent event of history. Humans exist, but they don&#8217;t have to exist, and before our origin, humans didn&#8217;t exist. Insofar as we motivate the individual&#8217;s sacrality through a narrative hypothesis, we can say that the sacrality or rather value of the individual is rationalized. In general, if one gives reasons (without appealing to God or the equivalent) why one regards the individual as sacred or valuable, then we&#8217;ve rationalized individual value/sacrality. To that extent, GA has better rationalized the value of the individual better than any other thought-system of which I&#8217;m aware. Human rights advocates simply assert a priori that rights are universal. GA tells us why. That&#8217;s a great advance to my mind.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Health Care by adam</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/05/health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-18132</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2011 21:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/?p=379#comment-18132</guid>
		<description>I think you answer your own question about the relation between the sacred and the rational: we can&#039;t have &quot;ethical functionality&quot; without the minimal sacrality of the individual; and if the individual is sacred, then our reasoning is locked into the terms established by that sacrality.  We could, I suppose, have a discussion amongst several people regarding the pros and cons of killing and eating one of the participants in the discussion which might be perfectly rational in terms of its adherence to notions of causality, logicality, etc.  And, yet, we would all immeditately recognize such a discussion as a perversion or parody of reason, because we reject its starting point--that another person can be subject to such calculations.  There&#039;s nothing irrational in the rejection of such a starting point--we could explain very well why we can&#039;t talk about people in such ways, but such an explanation would bring us back to other, perfectly rational, discussions about the sacred.  

I should also say that I&#039;m not nearly as confident as you are of the sturdiness of the sacralization of the individual in today&#039;s world.  There&#039;s a very big difference between allowing social differentiation (and inequality) to play itself out in health care outcomes and appointing people to allocate life saving or denying health care on the basis of bureaucratic criteria.  Paradoxically, the former approach would be the one that genuinely sacralizes the individual (because it allows everyone to match their resources to their needs as best they can, and to solicit help from others who donate voluntarily), and the more difficult approach--the one that would confront far stronger political headwinds.  I&#039;m not at all sure that the sacrality of the individual is deeply enough embedded for us to go in that direction.  

I don&#039;t deny that discourses of &quot;health&quot; can be dangerous--I&#039;m just exploring various directions one might go with it, especially if it gets imposed upon us whether we like it or not.  To follow up on your question here, the way we could designate responsibility in terms of &quot;health/sickness&quot; would be by treating &quot;health&quot; as a source of metaphors for discussing social relations.  Of course, this is what the totalitarians did (the Jews as a &quot;virus,&quot; etc.) but I don&#039;t think we need to let the argument &quot;ad Hitlerum&quot; frighten us so much anymore.  I don&#039;t think there is anything inherently totalitarian about speaking of a &quot;healthy&quot; or &quot;sick&quot; social order, or in talking about beliefs or practices that &quot;infect&quot; institutions, with the corresponding use of terms like &quot;inoculate&quot; or &quot;heal&quot; to speak of protecting and restoring those institutions.  If you could ask someone whether their proposal for social change or even their own individual choices will infect a weakened system or inoculate it against infection, we could then speak about responsibility.  And the descriptive power of the vocabulary would have to be judged on its own terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you answer your own question about the relation between the sacred and the rational: we can&#8217;t have &#8220;ethical functionality&#8221; without the minimal sacrality of the individual; and if the individual is sacred, then our reasoning is locked into the terms established by that sacrality.  We could, I suppose, have a discussion amongst several people regarding the pros and cons of killing and eating one of the participants in the discussion which might be perfectly rational in terms of its adherence to notions of causality, logicality, etc.  And, yet, we would all immeditately recognize such a discussion as a perversion or parody of reason, because we reject its starting point&#8211;that another person can be subject to such calculations.  There&#8217;s nothing irrational in the rejection of such a starting point&#8211;we could explain very well why we can&#8217;t talk about people in such ways, but such an explanation would bring us back to other, perfectly rational, discussions about the sacred.  </p>
<p>I should also say that I&#8217;m not nearly as confident as you are of the sturdiness of the sacralization of the individual in today&#8217;s world.  There&#8217;s a very big difference between allowing social differentiation (and inequality) to play itself out in health care outcomes and appointing people to allocate life saving or denying health care on the basis of bureaucratic criteria.  Paradoxically, the former approach would be the one that genuinely sacralizes the individual (because it allows everyone to match their resources to their needs as best they can, and to solicit help from others who donate voluntarily), and the more difficult approach&#8211;the one that would confront far stronger political headwinds.  I&#8217;m not at all sure that the sacrality of the individual is deeply enough embedded for us to go in that direction.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t deny that discourses of &#8220;health&#8221; can be dangerous&#8211;I&#8217;m just exploring various directions one might go with it, especially if it gets imposed upon us whether we like it or not.  To follow up on your question here, the way we could designate responsibility in terms of &#8220;health/sickness&#8221; would be by treating &#8220;health&#8221; as a source of metaphors for discussing social relations.  Of course, this is what the totalitarians did (the Jews as a &#8220;virus,&#8221; etc.) but I don&#8217;t think we need to let the argument &#8220;ad Hitlerum&#8221; frighten us so much anymore.  I don&#8217;t think there is anything inherently totalitarian about speaking of a &#8220;healthy&#8221; or &#8220;sick&#8221; social order, or in talking about beliefs or practices that &#8220;infect&#8221; institutions, with the corresponding use of terms like &#8220;inoculate&#8221; or &#8220;heal&#8221; to speak of protecting and restoring those institutions.  If you could ask someone whether their proposal for social change or even their own individual choices will infect a weakened system or inoculate it against infection, we could then speak about responsibility.  And the descriptive power of the vocabulary would have to be judged on its own terms.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Health Care by Q</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/05/health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-18131</link>
		<dc:creator>Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2011 19:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/?p=379#comment-18131</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Your thoughts on modernity are helpful for me. I&#039;m a little puzzled that you reject the sacred vs. rational distinction, at least in terms of modernity. The sacred is generally the label we give to something that&#039;s not open to negotiation, rational or otherwise. If something can be explained in rational terms, then we don&#039;t need the vocabulary of the sacred, except for historical description. On the originary scene, meaning is certainly sacred, but doesn&#039;t that terminology reflect the participants&#039; lack of anthropological understanding? GA makes no appeal to the sacred qua supernatural to explain meaning, since meaning can be explained more economically in terms of ethical functionality. I agree we have to maintain a minimal sacrality, the sacrality of the self, the individual; we need that minimal level to protect us from quasi-rational movements, like Nazism, to purge the &quot;degenerate,&quot; &quot;sick&quot; members of society (a good example of how the language of health and sickness can lend themselves to irrational fears and behaviors). But in our society, the value of the individual is hardly something that we need to defend. Health care policy always involves cost-benefit decisions which, as you point out, might seem scandalous to our victimary sensitivities; they can only be defended on rational terms, as I see it.

I would have to agree that sin and guilt are not necessarily more rational terms than health and sickness (in fact, just the opposite). They do have the advantage, however, of designating responsibility. Sin and guilt don&#039;t have any currency in public discourse anymore, so that&#039;s not an issue. Those designations only come up in more or less private religious discourse. I can see your point that &quot;health and sickness&quot; don&#039;t have to be tied to an entitlement culture, and they are not always antithetical to personal responsibility. But they do lend themselves to that culture; grammatically, we tend to use the passive voice with sickness, something we &quot;suffer.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Your thoughts on modernity are helpful for me. I&#8217;m a little puzzled that you reject the sacred vs. rational distinction, at least in terms of modernity. The sacred is generally the label we give to something that&#8217;s not open to negotiation, rational or otherwise. If something can be explained in rational terms, then we don&#8217;t need the vocabulary of the sacred, except for historical description. On the originary scene, meaning is certainly sacred, but doesn&#8217;t that terminology reflect the participants&#8217; lack of anthropological understanding? GA makes no appeal to the sacred qua supernatural to explain meaning, since meaning can be explained more economically in terms of ethical functionality. I agree we have to maintain a minimal sacrality, the sacrality of the self, the individual; we need that minimal level to protect us from quasi-rational movements, like Nazism, to purge the &#8220;degenerate,&#8221; &#8220;sick&#8221; members of society (a good example of how the language of health and sickness can lend themselves to irrational fears and behaviors). But in our society, the value of the individual is hardly something that we need to defend. Health care policy always involves cost-benefit decisions which, as you point out, might seem scandalous to our victimary sensitivities; they can only be defended on rational terms, as I see it.</p>
<p>I would have to agree that sin and guilt are not necessarily more rational terms than health and sickness (in fact, just the opposite). They do have the advantage, however, of designating responsibility. Sin and guilt don&#8217;t have any currency in public discourse anymore, so that&#8217;s not an issue. Those designations only come up in more or less private religious discourse. I can see your point that &#8220;health and sickness&#8221; don&#8217;t have to be tied to an entitlement culture, and they are not always antithetical to personal responsibility. But they do lend themselves to that culture; grammatically, we tend to use the passive voice with sickness, something we &#8220;suffer.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Health Care by adam</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/05/health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-18113</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2011 04:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/?p=379#comment-18113</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll begin by conceding the point about &quot;Gnosticism,&quot; a term which I am at times a little lazy about using--here, I was actually using it to qualify a compliment:  the belief in the capacities of of the disabled is, of course, increasingly justified--the need for the qualification is in the occasional insistence that even the term &quot;disabled&quot; be denounced.  In truth, though, the notion of speaking of the &quot;differently abled&quot; doesn&#039;t seem to have picked up much steam, so I don&#039;t feel much need to argue the point. I do see modernity as Christianity applied beyond the strictly liturgical sphere, but with a strongly heretical tendency.  Not exclusively heretical, but the anti-Christian element in modernity is highly polemical, using Christianity&#039;s own principles to attack its established forms.  Instead of good vs. evil, if we think about modernity as positing a before and after with a radical break between the two (benighted vs. enlightened, oppression vs, freedom, dependency vs. autonomy, etc.), I think that heretical tendency comes out.  

So, I don&#039;t see modernity in terms of a &quot;rational&quot; vs. &quot;sacred&quot; distinction. I&#039;ve never understood how we can speak about meaning outside of the sacred. We can sacralize rationality in certain circumstances (and in terms of certain understandings of rationality) and we can and, I believe, have, sacralize the human individual who cannot be coerced into any belief or action.  We are free and therefore must persuade each other if we seek exchange or cooperation, but there is no obligation to do so in accord with any version of &quot;rationality.&quot;  I don&#039;t assume that a therapeutic culture must be linked to an entitlement culture--at any rate, this post is an attempt to think through some of the implications of their de-linking.  The &quot;therapeutic&quot; provides us with a vocabulary:  we can speak of a &quot;sick&quot; culture, of social &quot;pathologies,&quot; of relationships and personal wounds that need to be &quot;healed.&quot;  This vocabulary might in part supplant, in part supplement, and in part continue, some of the more traditional vocabularies, organized around terms like &quot;sin,&quot; &quot;guilt,&quot; &quot;virtue,&quot; and so on.  I&#039;m exploring the possibility that it might do in ways that support the privatizations we need, economically speaking--especially in health care.  As I suggest here, one important element of the therapeutic is the refusal to accept &quot;offical&quot; and &quot;establishment&quot; cures, and an insistence on one&#039;s right to seek out unlicensed cures and treatments.  In the end, it will be impossible to ask others to pay for it.  

At rate, I don&#039;t see any reason why thinking in terms of &quot;health,&quot; &quot;treatment,&quot; &quot;recovery,&quot; etc., is necessarily any more or less rational than speaking in terms of &quot;good and evil,&quot; &quot;guilt,&quot; or even &quot;rational vs. irrational.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll begin by conceding the point about &#8220;Gnosticism,&#8221; a term which I am at times a little lazy about using&#8211;here, I was actually using it to qualify a compliment:  the belief in the capacities of of the disabled is, of course, increasingly justified&#8211;the need for the qualification is in the occasional insistence that even the term &#8220;disabled&#8221; be denounced.  In truth, though, the notion of speaking of the &#8220;differently abled&#8221; doesn&#8217;t seem to have picked up much steam, so I don&#8217;t feel much need to argue the point. I do see modernity as Christianity applied beyond the strictly liturgical sphere, but with a strongly heretical tendency.  Not exclusively heretical, but the anti-Christian element in modernity is highly polemical, using Christianity&#8217;s own principles to attack its established forms.  Instead of good vs. evil, if we think about modernity as positing a before and after with a radical break between the two (benighted vs. enlightened, oppression vs, freedom, dependency vs. autonomy, etc.), I think that heretical tendency comes out.  </p>
<p>So, I don&#8217;t see modernity in terms of a &#8220;rational&#8221; vs. &#8220;sacred&#8221; distinction. I&#8217;ve never understood how we can speak about meaning outside of the sacred. We can sacralize rationality in certain circumstances (and in terms of certain understandings of rationality) and we can and, I believe, have, sacralize the human individual who cannot be coerced into any belief or action.  We are free and therefore must persuade each other if we seek exchange or cooperation, but there is no obligation to do so in accord with any version of &#8220;rationality.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t assume that a therapeutic culture must be linked to an entitlement culture&#8211;at any rate, this post is an attempt to think through some of the implications of their de-linking.  The &#8220;therapeutic&#8221; provides us with a vocabulary:  we can speak of a &#8220;sick&#8221; culture, of social &#8220;pathologies,&#8221; of relationships and personal wounds that need to be &#8220;healed.&#8221;  This vocabulary might in part supplant, in part supplement, and in part continue, some of the more traditional vocabularies, organized around terms like &#8220;sin,&#8221; &#8220;guilt,&#8221; &#8220;virtue,&#8221; and so on.  I&#8217;m exploring the possibility that it might do in ways that support the privatizations we need, economically speaking&#8211;especially in health care.  As I suggest here, one important element of the therapeutic is the refusal to accept &#8220;offical&#8221; and &#8220;establishment&#8221; cures, and an insistence on one&#8217;s right to seek out unlicensed cures and treatments.  In the end, it will be impossible to ask others to pay for it.  </p>
<p>At rate, I don&#8217;t see any reason why thinking in terms of &#8220;health,&#8221; &#8220;treatment,&#8221; &#8220;recovery,&#8221; etc., is necessarily any more or less rational than speaking in terms of &#8220;good and evil,&#8221; &#8220;guilt,&#8221; or even &#8220;rational vs. irrational.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Health Care by Q</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/05/health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-18111</link>
		<dc:creator>Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/?p=379#comment-18111</guid>
		<description>Your idea that our &quot;therapeutic culture&quot; could actually promote individual responsibility for health decisions, acceptance of our mortal and human limitations, is hopeful in the best sense, but I think you have to recognize that it&#039;s criticized correctly for doing the precise opposite. The problem is to get people to take responsibility for personal decisions that affect their health, and the best way to do this seems to be economically. Our current system encourages people to see every problem (e.g. alcoholism, sex/gender identity unease, etc.) as a &quot;sickness&quot; for which they are not responsible and demand a &quot;cure&quot; or costly accommodation. Would not originary anthropology teach us that our tendency to sacralize health care issues (more specifically, apparent &quot;inequities&quot; in life outcomes) is a problem (as I think you acknowledge)? That it needs to be addressed in more rational terms? I do like the idea of using the sacrality of the body/self (if I understand you correctly) as a way of conceptualizing the process of living, accepting our human limitations and mortality, but I just see how it&#039;s currently misused.

On a technical issue, I&#039;m interested in Gnosticism, and I wonder why you characterize as Gnostic our insistence that the &quot;challenged&quot; can and should do everything that others can? I&#039;m guessing that this is the tendency to see &quot;knowledge&quot; (specifically technology) as the answer to every problem, and that progress should be unlimited. But I wonder if technology is really a side issue here. True, prosthetic limbs and various accomodations help the disabled to function more effectively; but this also involves attitude perhaps more importantly. A deaf and blind person who decides to take up rock climbing or even skiing doesn&#039;t depend so much on technical advancements as historical changes in attitudes going back to Helen Keller among others. Is Helen Keller&#039;s optimism about the potential of the deaf/blind usefully characterized as &quot;gnostic&quot;?

If I&#039;m not mistaken, it&#039;s Voegelin who has influentially characterized the modern world as gnostic, as trying to realize the kingdom of heaven on earth, relying on knowledge as deployed by elite experts. His characterization of the modern world is insightful in many ways; but calling it gnostic seems rather unfortunate to me. I see gnosticism as concerned with a cosmic battle between good and evil, the appropriation of power through magic, and the absence of any monotheistic, beneficent providence. Is technology really a modern form of magic? I&#039;m not sure about that. Technology at least works. As I recall, Blumenberg makes an argument not too dissimilar to Voegelin; that gnosticism effectively means the absence of any omnipotent providence, so that moderns are driven to &quot;self-assertion.&quot; But I think Blumenberg sees gnosticism as more of a transitional stage rather than as characterizing the end result, except in the atheism implicit to both. Blumenberg argues against the &quot;secularization theory&quot; of modernity (i.e., modernity is simply Christianity without the sacred), and Voegelin seems to advocating a version of it: that a heretical form of christianity underlies modernity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your idea that our &#8220;therapeutic culture&#8221; could actually promote individual responsibility for health decisions, acceptance of our mortal and human limitations, is hopeful in the best sense, but I think you have to recognize that it&#8217;s criticized correctly for doing the precise opposite. The problem is to get people to take responsibility for personal decisions that affect their health, and the best way to do this seems to be economically. Our current system encourages people to see every problem (e.g. alcoholism, sex/gender identity unease, etc.) as a &#8220;sickness&#8221; for which they are not responsible and demand a &#8220;cure&#8221; or costly accommodation. Would not originary anthropology teach us that our tendency to sacralize health care issues (more specifically, apparent &#8220;inequities&#8221; in life outcomes) is a problem (as I think you acknowledge)? That it needs to be addressed in more rational terms? I do like the idea of using the sacrality of the body/self (if I understand you correctly) as a way of conceptualizing the process of living, accepting our human limitations and mortality, but I just see how it&#8217;s currently misused.</p>
<p>On a technical issue, I&#8217;m interested in Gnosticism, and I wonder why you characterize as Gnostic our insistence that the &#8220;challenged&#8221; can and should do everything that others can? I&#8217;m guessing that this is the tendency to see &#8220;knowledge&#8221; (specifically technology) as the answer to every problem, and that progress should be unlimited. But I wonder if technology is really a side issue here. True, prosthetic limbs and various accomodations help the disabled to function more effectively; but this also involves attitude perhaps more importantly. A deaf and blind person who decides to take up rock climbing or even skiing doesn&#8217;t depend so much on technical advancements as historical changes in attitudes going back to Helen Keller among others. Is Helen Keller&#8217;s optimism about the potential of the deaf/blind usefully characterized as &#8220;gnostic&#8221;?</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m not mistaken, it&#8217;s Voegelin who has influentially characterized the modern world as gnostic, as trying to realize the kingdom of heaven on earth, relying on knowledge as deployed by elite experts. His characterization of the modern world is insightful in many ways; but calling it gnostic seems rather unfortunate to me. I see gnosticism as concerned with a cosmic battle between good and evil, the appropriation of power through magic, and the absence of any monotheistic, beneficent providence. Is technology really a modern form of magic? I&#8217;m not sure about that. Technology at least works. As I recall, Blumenberg makes an argument not too dissimilar to Voegelin; that gnosticism effectively means the absence of any omnipotent providence, so that moderns are driven to &#8220;self-assertion.&#8221; But I think Blumenberg sees gnosticism as more of a transitional stage rather than as characterizing the end result, except in the atheism implicit to both. Blumenberg argues against the &#8220;secularization theory&#8221; of modernity (i.e., modernity is simply Christianity without the sacred), and Voegelin seems to advocating a version of it: that a heretical form of christianity underlies modernity.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Madison, not Cairo by adam</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/03/madison-not-cairo/comment-page-1/#comment-18033</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 19:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/?p=374#comment-18033</guid>
		<description>I did say it was the beginning of the beginning.  Still, I think making contributions voluntary is pretty consequential--not only will the (I assume) substantial numbers (maybe up to a half) de-legitimate the union, but a big part of the reason they can turn out voters is because of the war chest they are able to accumulate.  And the weaker the union gets, the less reason there will be to give money to it, setting in motion a virtuous circle, as the Democratic Party in turn gets weaker and seeks out other constituencies.  Some public opinion polls have been going against Walker and the Republicans, but once the protestors are gone, that may change.  And a lot of people have diversified their news consumption over the past 10 years or so, and there are a lot of very damning videos of the unions, Democrats and protestors out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did say it was the beginning of the beginning.  Still, I think making contributions voluntary is pretty consequential&#8211;not only will the (I assume) substantial numbers (maybe up to a half) de-legitimate the union, but a big part of the reason they can turn out voters is because of the war chest they are able to accumulate.  And the weaker the union gets, the less reason there will be to give money to it, setting in motion a virtuous circle, as the Democratic Party in turn gets weaker and seeks out other constituencies.  Some public opinion polls have been going against Walker and the Republicans, but once the protestors are gone, that may change.  And a lot of people have diversified their news consumption over the past 10 years or so, and there are a lot of very damning videos of the unions, Democrats and protestors out there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Madison, not Cairo by Q</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2011/03/madison-not-cairo/comment-page-1/#comment-18032</link>
		<dc:creator>Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/?p=374#comment-18032</guid>
		<description>I agree with your analysis, but the problem is that the public employee unions have an unparalleled ability to turn out voters. That&#039;s how they got their power in the first place. Unless they&#039;re completely outlawed, which doesn&#039;t seem likely, they will retain that power. There could be a backlash that would counter the tea-party&#039;s movement for smaller government. Notably, the press&#039;s coverage of the events in Wisconsin is almost entirely negative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your analysis, but the problem is that the public employee unions have an unparalleled ability to turn out voters. That&#8217;s how they got their power in the first place. Unless they&#8217;re completely outlawed, which doesn&#8217;t seem likely, they will retain that power. There could be a backlash that would counter the tea-party&#8217;s movement for smaller government. Notably, the press&#8217;s coverage of the events in Wisconsin is almost entirely negative.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Mistake of Liberal Democracy by lightweed</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2010/02/the-mistake-of-liberal-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-16222</link>
		<dc:creator>lightweed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2010/02/the-mistake-of-liberal-democracy/#comment-16222</guid>
		<description>ahh, i see, they ONLY appear *when* i post a new comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ahh, i see, they ONLY appear *when* i post a new comment!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Mistake of Liberal Democracy by lightweed</title>
		<link>http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2010/02/the-mistake-of-liberal-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-16221</link>
		<dc:creator>lightweed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gablog.cdh.ucla.edu/2010/02/the-mistake-of-liberal-democracy/#comment-16221</guid>
		<description>i have no clue as to what is going on here now, AK.. for, upon returning to the comments fold today, after posting my third effort the evening before, i find both your comments and mine have now vanished! Alas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have no clue as to what is going on here now, AK.. for, upon returning to the comments fold today, after posting my third effort the evening before, i find both your comments and mine have now vanished! Alas!</p>
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